tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1291147930399569160.post5388611132739949054..comments2024-03-21T09:39:36.523+11:00Comments on Ἡλληνιστεύκοντος: Accent in Modern Compounds: Speculationsopoudjishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02106433476518749382noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1291147930399569160.post-89660943394815817692011-02-17T22:00:03.497+11:002011-02-17T22:00:03.497+11:00In addition to the grammatical and phonological ru...In addition to the grammatical and phonological rules, I suspect there might be cultural issues at play, too. In the quote I provided above, for example, παλιοπαπάς is uttered hatefully, yet in awe and reverence (by a demon being exorcised); but in the other negative compounds like τραγόπαπας there is recession, in order to de-emphasize "priest" and stress (pun intended) "goat" or whatever, I suspect. [A partial exception is offered by the only positive priestly compound, πρωτοπαπάς or πρωτόπαπας ("top priest"): both versions occur extensively, even though my theory would favor only the former. (Unfortunately our sample consists almost exlusively of the two versions of the Greek last name "Protopapas".)]gbaloglouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01480266185807275110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1291147930399569160.post-10831593221429234472011-02-10T20:37:38.158+11:002011-02-10T20:37:38.158+11:00Actually παλιοπαπάς exists, in a miracle story rel...Actually παλιοπαπάς exists, in a miracle story related to St. Gerasimos for example: «Δεν φθάνει παλιοπαπά ετούτος που μένει εδώ και δεν με αφήνει σε ησυχία μέρα νύχτα έχω σήμερα και σένα με τούτο το λάδι, να με καίτε και οι δυο» [http://www.agiooros.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=9812]gbaloglouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01480266185807275110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1291147930399569160.post-16191507730390591932011-02-10T10:19:19.625+11:002011-02-10T10:19:19.625+11:00The Reverse (not inverse) Dictionary is here:
http...The Reverse (not inverse) Dictionary is here:<br />http://www.greek-language.gr/greekLang/modern_greek/tools/lexica/reverse/search.html?lq=%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%82&dq=Νίκος Σαραντάκοςhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03184327171754044982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1291147930399569160.post-60193111294918588032011-02-10T10:14:58.760+11:002011-02-10T10:14:58.760+11:00Very well done, thank you. Just one point for the ...Very well done, thank you. Just one point for the moment. I am not sure you got it right on παπάς. For starters, there is no "παλιοπαπας". Of course, you can put παλιο- in front of anything, but παλιοπαπας is not attested in reference works and only has 6 google hits, of which five are written without any accent (as usual in forums) and one moves up the accent, παλιόπαπας. <br /><br />In the Inverse Dictionary, there are some 20 words ending in -παπάς, not all legit compounds, all of which move up their accent (τραγόπαπας, λεβεντόπαπας, διαβολόπαπας, ξέπαπας etc.) but one: πρωτόπαπας also has the variant πρωτοπαπάς.<br /><br />Note also that the accent moving is inherent even when the word is pronounced as a monosyllable. Even in those idioms where they say πλί (for πουλί) and σκλί (for σκυλί), they say μαυροπούλι, παλιόσκυλο.Νίκος Σαραντάκοςhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03184327171754044982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1291147930399569160.post-87284638735794040492011-02-09T16:51:49.552+11:002011-02-09T16:51:49.552+11:00Moving past the rho as in παλιόκαιρος is OK, for m...Moving past the rho as in παλιόκαιρος is OK, for me the issue is that the rho prevents the stress from falling further behind -- that it would be hard to say υποστρατηγός instead of υποστράτηγος ... because one needs a 'rest' (provided by the stress) after the rho. (Likewise for βουτυροπαίδι instead of βουτυρόπαιδο, although in that case there may be other issues at play, like 'negative' -παιδο versus 'positive' -παιδι.)gbaloglouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01480266185807275110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1291147930399569160.post-6008288923442710672011-02-09T10:25:42.823+11:002011-02-09T10:25:42.823+11:00George: counterexample: παλιόκαιρος, where the str...George: counterexample: παλιόκαιρος, where the stress moves up past an /r/. So I don't see that such a rule applies.opoudjishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02106433476518749382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1291147930399569160.post-18698346757280355202011-02-09T05:16:10.600+11:002011-02-09T05:16:10.600+11:00Let me ask, rather naively: could it be that what ...Let me ask, rather naively: could it be that what υποστράτηγος and βουτυρόπαιδο have in common is good old rho (ρ)? That the difficulty of uttering rho pulls the accent forward, giving the speaker a 'break'?gbaloglouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01480266185807275110noreply@blogger.com